PRESENT: Chairman: Darcy. Members: Albanese, Wishnie, Stewart-Cousins. Staff: Megan Perry, Correction Department; Emilia Vita, Secretary.

ALSO PRESENT: Leonard Spano, County Clerk; Eugene Rogers, Assistant to County Clerk; Bill Doughty, NYS Firearms and Pistol Association; Scott Sommavilla, Westchester County Firearms Owners Association.

Chairman Darcy called the meeting to order at 11:00 a.m.

The minutes of March 10, 1997, were approved, as amended, on the motion of Legislator Wishnie, seconded by Legislator Albanese; all in favor, none opposed, motion carried [5-0].

Item E: A proposal from the New York State Rifle and Pistol Firearm Owners Association, Inc., regarding computerizing the County Clerk’s pistol license record system. This item is also referred to the Committee on Legislation

Mr. Darcy said he would rather use the term license or permit control rather than gun control when referring to this issue. The Association has suggested utilizing a computerized system that will update the County Clerk’s current permit filing system. The County Clerk’s current filing system is somewhat antiquated. This proposal will enable the County to keep a current inventory of those people having permits, as well as the weapons they own, and this inventory would include the license and serial numbers. Mr. Darcy asked the Association representatives and the County Clerk about the feasibility of implementing this system and the cost involved.

Bill Doughty, President of the NYS Rifle and Pistol Association, said the proposed measures would accomplish all the objectives and address the concerns that were previously submitted. This is one of several parts of an initiative to increase public safety. There is also legislation pending at the State level with Senator Spano and Assemblyman Tocci that will improve the flow of information from the judiciary to police departments.

Presently, there are over 60,000 licenses in the County. Given the age of some of the records (since 1930’s), questions arose about what happened to those permit holders and their firearms. Renewal is only one way to more closely monitor these records. The Association and the County Clerk have met on several occasions, in conjunction with OGES, to discuss this proposal. The sole purpose of the first step is to automate the current record system into a machine-readable form. Once this is done, then a first-time purge would be performed which would include a variety of data bases -- either tapes or disc. This will indicate if a license holder had moved, died, had a felony record or a mental health record. This would be a one-time purge and would significantly reduce the number of valid licenses.

Mr. Darcy thought the only way to eliminate a permit was by judicial order. Mr. Doughty said there are two steps in the Administrative issue and what happens thereafter. If you clean up a record by removal or computer purge, there still is the question of what to do with those records or people who are no longer qualified. An opinion has been rendered by one judge that a class be declared by mail. It is not an expensive proposition to administratively deal with those who are "flagged". Should there be a felony, then it becomes a law enforcement issue. This establishes a playing field and a valid question: "What happens if a person is incompetent to hold a valid pistol license?" Today’s proposal is the most efficient and cost-effective way to get to this point.

Chairman Darcy clarified the data entry system with the purge and current data basis, and asked for a detailed explanation of how the Association will accomplish this task.

Mr. Doughty said if the technical issues are addressed, in the macro sense, when all the records are put into a machine-readable form in the most common and likely way for this to occur is the actual tape of the various other source (i.e. Motor Vehicle Department, Health Department, State Police, etc.). These tapes are entered into the computer system, merge program is executed and they compare automatically and kick-out a report by exception.

Once this is done and the proper administrative or law enforcement procedure is followed on a periodic basis, whenever the Clerk feels appropriate, those tapes are taken in again, and the list becomes less and less.

Mr. Doughty pointed out that these lists will be made available to the County Clerk’s office and the expense involved will no longer be an issue. He presented a figure of 63,000 pistol licenses are listed in Westchester County. Only two other counties in the State that are trying to address the same issue by renewal process. They are Suffolk and Nassau Counties. Suffolk County changed its renewal cycle from a three-year to a five-year cycle without changing the fees charged to the license holders. In Western Suffolk County, towns have 30,000 licenses which are processed by 14 law enforcement officers and 14 clerks. In the Eastern towns, the Sheriff’s Department has 40,000 permits, processed by 3 clerks and several uniformed officers.

If a renewal plan was exercised by Westchester County, and the salaries, benefits, equipment and infrastructure are factored in, it exceeds approximately $1.2 million per year. Only a fraction of this can be passed along to license holders. Therefore, this is a taxpayer issue. The renewal process is an expensive way to find out when someone’s status has changed or he or she is otherwise incapable or disqualified from exercising the right to hold a pistol license.

County Clerk Spano gave a brief background on the system, saying he does not have a problem with those who have pistol permits, he has a problem with the records. The State charges the County Clerk's office with keeping accurate records. He feels the laws do not go far enough and he referred to the waiting period. His system has been up and running for five years and there was no way to follow up on any changes. When the Association came up with a plan, he found it to be an interesting concept. When in Albany several weeks ago, he met with State Police, Health Department, Motor Vehicle and General Service officials regarding this proposal, and they seemed responsive to the concept. All were very cooperative as to the information aspect. More information can be available from government to government than from outside agencies. There is an agreement to be settled between these agencies, but it’s not official as of yet. Within the last five years, his department has input information solely from the death resolutions supplied by the Health Department. Once the data base is complete, is easier to compare the State Police records against the Health Department, for Westchester County residents only. He said updating the files can be done every six months, and it can be done in-house.

Legislator Stewart-Cousins asked how many people are involved in the permanent processing. Mr. Spano said two employees, but they also handle naturalization, hunting and fishing licenses and passports. When asked, Mr. Spano said he charges fees equal to only what the State allows him to charge. When asked what the cost is going to be to process this new information, the County Clerk said a member of his staff will have to work solely on input of names and address. Input is done on a daily basis now. If a person’s record is "dumped", for whatever reason, the responsibility then falls under the jurisdiction of the County Police. Legislator Donovan said it then becomes a concern of the Board, because it oversees the County Police.

Mr. Spano said when the local or County Police want to revoke someone’s license, they send the notice to his department. He then sends that notice to the County Attorney’s office and they, in turn, charge his Department for processing. Mr. Wishnie said this should be included in the cost of renewal.

Mr. Spano said he spoke with the Commissioner of each Department involved, they are anxious to move forward with these plans.

Chairman Darcy asked when the program will be ready for a detailed presentation for action by the Committees involved. This presentation should include the cost factors, how it’s going to be done, which data base is going to be accessed and how it will be handled. Mr. Spano said they will be ready in approximately two weeks. Under the conditions of a permit, if any changes are made, the Pistol Division of the State Police should be notified directly. A person is required to report a lost or stolen gun to the authorities. It is an owner’s legal obligation (within 15 days) to notify the police or, a widowed spouse can notify the police.

Legislator Albanese brought up the issue of the Association remarks regarding the Town of Eastchester and the Michael Frey incident. Mr. Doughty briefly explained the Association’s remarks to the Supervisor of the Town of Eastchester. He has since spoken with Mr. Cavanaugh and the issue has been resolved between the two (a letter was is submitted to the Committee Secretary for informational purposes).

County Clerk Spano said he has spoken with Mr. Albert Frey (the slain police officer’s brother) and he is working along with him to resolve the issue of the licensing.

Ms. Amy Paulin, representing the League of Women Voters and the Westchester Women’s Agenda, supported the automation of the County Clerk’s efforts to update the records. She asked if the automation be solely to control the number of permit holders and questioned the cost factor. Chairman Darcy assured her that the cost factor will be included in the proposal when submitted.

Messrs. Doughty and Sommavilla will be working with the County Clerk to reach a reasonable solution to all the questions and problems raised.

Chairman Darcy thanked all those involved for a very informative and educational session. He said he was sure everyone involved was looking for a reasonable approach to solving a problem that has gotten out of hand over the years.

Mr. Doughty asked to have submitted to the Committee a copy of the Violent Felon Act. A copy will be kept on file with the Committee Secretary.

On the motion of Legislator Darcy, seconded by Legislator Albanese, the meeting adjourned at 12:20 p.m., motion carried [5-0].