LEGISLATORS: DELFINO, SWANSON, SPRECKMAN, YOUNG

STAFF: GRETSAS, KRISS, VITAGLIANO, OCHACHER, MORO (BOL)

OTHER: HERMAN GEIST

Tape on file for more detailed information

Chairman Delfino called the meeting to order at 9:15 a.m.

Legislator Young motioned to approve the minutes of April 7, 1997 and was seconded by Legislator Spreckman. The motion was carried by a vote of 4-0.

The Committee reviewed the letter sent in by Trevor Franklin, explaining his current residence, which was in question when he was interviewed. On motion of Legislator Young, seconded by Legislator Spreckman the motion to approve the Resolution confirming the appointment of Trevor Franklin was approved by a vote of 4-0.

Chairman Delfino stated that the Committee is going to begin the process for the proposed new ethics code for Westchester County. He distributed three documents to the Committee. A report of the Ad Hoc Committee including attachments, Comments of the Board Staff, and the 4/2/97 Draft (Labeled Eighth Draft). Chairman Delfino went on to explain that the draft they have in their folder is the seventh draft. The one he just handed to them is the eighth draft, which is the one they will be discussing. He wanted them to have the seventh in front of them as well as a comparison.

Mr. Geist asked if he could make a statement before they went on. He stated that the 1971 or 1972 Board made the first draft. He had a card made up of his code of Ethics which was, If you have to ask yourself the questions, don’t do it and if your not smart enough to ask the questions, no code will you ever understand. Members on the Board at that time represented Con Edison, telephones, Gannett, and when they wanted to abstain he said you didn’t come here to abstain, make a statement requesting abstention, tell the reason so everyone knows why you want to abstain. He does not think it is a real problem today because this Board doesn’t have as many attorneys. Chairman Delfino stated that he thinks that it is a different world of politics between then and today. Mr. Geist stated that there is the possibility that you may get four or five attorneys that are involved with major corporate accounts that do business with the County. Disclosure is more important in the vote if you disclose that your firm represents the client should you not vote on the issue. It is a potential problem, you could have a mandate that they have to disclose. Chairman Delfino feels people are looking for that today. He believes this is a very tight code. He thinks it is very restrictive.

Chairman Delfino asked Mr. Vitagliano to explain how we got to the eighth draft. Mr. Vitagliano explained that he and Mr. Ochacher took on the task of drafting the new Ethics Code. They looked at what other Counties were doing and the end result was the draft distributed in November. The Chairman requested the draft be reviewed by the Ad Hoc Committee. The Ad Hoc Committee returned their report in February. Mr. Vitagliano and Mr. Ochacher took some of their suggestions and put them in the draft, creating the eighth draft. The eighth draft does not have underscores of what was amended, it is a major rewrite. It still needs the review of the County Attorney. The Disclosure form is not done. Mr. Vitagliano suggests the Committee read through the eighth draft and ask Mr. Ochacher or himself any questions they might have.

Mr. Ochacher stated that the Ad Hoc Committee came up with an alternative proposal. The Board will have to decide to adopt either the Ad Hoc Committee’s model or the eighth draft. He went on to say that they adopted 75% of the Ad Hoc comments into the eighth draft. The letter that he and Mr. Vitagliano drafted explains how they incorporated them. At this point he feels the eighth draft is a pretty evolved product that reflects commentary of a number of people, but ultimately the Board is going to have to decide if this is the way to go or the Model draft that the Ad Hoc Committee put together is.

Mr. Kriss mentioned that the Model Code is good in the Abstract, but it does not take into consideration some unique things that a particular community or county may have facing it. Also there is an assumption that maybe the model code is stricter and they want us to be stricter, but ironically in some cases the code that is proposed here is stricter than the model code. We wanted to be sure when this was being done that Westchester had a code that was fair but strict. Fair to everyone but tight so that when you go out into the Community they know that you are governed and that the County is governed by that kind of code and that was what was driving us. A lot was adopted from the critique, it was a wonderful job it brought up some very good points, it was a very distinguished panel of three, it was very helpful, it helped us produce a very good, tight and equitable draft, the eighth draft you have in front of you.

Legislator Spreckman asked who was on the Ad Hoc Committee. Chairman Delfino responded that they are Sal Prezioso, Burton Leiser, Professor of Ethics at Pace, and Henry Miller who was on the State Commission of Ethics. Chairman Delfino went on to state that all three of these individuals are very active in Westchester County and recognize the problems we have been facing with ethics that have been reported in the press or comments made in letters to the editor. In trying to address all those issues that people concerned themselves with, we had local people that are so talented help us with this. He

stated that we could take the state code, but it is not related to the specific issues of Westchester County.

Legislator Swanson asked if these people think that the Disclosure form could be changed. Chairman Delfino responded yes, unilaterally. However Marilyn does not. Mr. Vitagliano stated that on page 14 of the Ad Hoc report, the bottom two paragraphs discusses that whole issue. Mr. Ochacher stated that it is not just academic, he had a conversation with Mark Daves about this, who said he can think of a dozen Counties in New York City that do it every year. There is ambiguity in the state law, there is no question about that and Marilyn is right on that point, but she is taking that ambiguity to mean we shouldn’t act, Mark Daves has said an ambiguity means it is uncertain but you can act and there is nothing to prevent you from doing it.

Mr. Kriss interjected that we may come up with a wonderful code , but if it is not enforceable, it can not be implemented and the implementation has some very practical considerations for the Ethics Board. This is no good if it only exists on paper but does not have the muscle for enforcement so when you consider that it will be a very important part of your deliberations. He further remarked that the list of people who need to report needs to be resolved. There is some disagreement on some instances, they kept them all in until it is reviewed. There should be a systematic review of the titles on a regular basis.

Legislator Swanson inquired as to how much time they have. Chairman Delfino stated that they put the original draft together and went to the editorial board stating that by September 1st they would have a revised Ethics Code. Chairman Delfino went on to say that he hoped to do better than that, we got the information and got the Ad Hoc Committee so we will start the process. All the Legislators will get a packet, and we will ask them for their comments and questions in writing in one week. The questions will be answered here in this Committee, then we can start having hearings and discussions from

outside groups on this issue, and we will be revising this along the way.

Legislator Spreckman referred to the Equestrian situation, wondering how far they can go and what they can do, when you rent and lease when it is yours. Mr. Vitagliano stated that it is really contract reform, we probably need to include some language in our contracts that would give us easier provisions to get out. That same thought would cover ethical violations as well. If someone gets a contract because they did something inappropriate there should be certain language that gives the ability to get out. All those issues are indirectly related to ethics. Mr. Kriss agreed, there are a lot of issues that while they relate to this they should not be in the Ethics law itself, but should be addressed in other places. Mr. Ochacher stated that if they put too much in here it would take forever to pass because there would have been too many issues, too much debate.

Chairman Delfino suggested that the Committee review and discuss the eighth draft four pages at a time, so they can go over everything carefully. Starting next week he will have Dr. Prezioso come in representing the Ad Hoc Committee and go over it page by page. Mr. Vitagliano stated that he and Mr. Ochacher will be at the next meeting to answer questions from Legislators and staff.

Chairman Delfino stated that he will be hand delivering a copy of the packet to Mr. O’Rourke, Ms. Slaatten and Mr. Prezioso after the meeting, to make sure they get it as soon as possible.

Legislator Swanson asked if the County Attorney gave the opinion about not changing the form in writing. Mr. Vitagliano stated that she did.

Mr. Vitagliano mentioned that one change between the drafts was that on the previous draft, if an elected official had left office, we prevented them from coming back to the County for a year. We have

allowed for that, if they get approval from the Ethics Board just like if any other person left County employment they could come back if they have a specific expertise. We felt it was better if the Ethics Board was going to be involved in that process for other employees then why should we restrict a Legislator, if they have a particular expertise. Why should they be excluded.

On motion of Legislator Young, seconded by Legislator Spreckman the meeting was adjourned at 9:54 a.m. The motion was carried by a vote of 4-0.