MINUTES

COMMITTEE ON BUDGET AND APPROPRIATIONS

MAY 8, 1997 11:00 A.M.

PRESENT: Co-Chairs Swanson & Wishnie,

Legs: Darcy, LaMotte, Oros,

Abinanti

ALSO PRESENT: Ms. Schneider, Mr. Brotman,

Ms. Strauss, Comm. Landi, Mr.

Hosey, Leg. Carsky, Mr. Sandford,

Ms. Angiulo, Ms. Tooher, Comm.

Oliva, Mr. Bashian, Mr. Federici

Leg. Bronz, Mrs. Keating, Mr.

Boland.

ITEMS DISCUSSED:

Co-Chair Swanson called the meeting to order at 11:10 a.m.. Co-Chair Wishnie felt that the Budget Committee may have to add one meeting a week just for discussions on the Courthouse.

Co-Chair Swanson asked Comm. Landi if the building is structurally sound. Comm. Landi stated that there have been several looks at the building. The first one was in 1991 with Fuller and D’Angelo. In 1994, Hyman, Salvatore and Gibbons were hired to give us a plan based on Courthouse operations and that is what is in use as a base Plan. It is a $75 million plan that is in place now.

Leg. Carsky asked how the architects were selected and the Comm. stated they went through the RFP Process. The 1994 plan did not contemplate additional space.

Co-Chair Wishnie asked how are your addressing the water? The Comm. stated that there will be new windows and new outside skin. Co-Chair Wishnie stated that the new skin was put on a portion of the low rise. The new skin has no leaks and the Comm. will attest to that.

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Leg. LaMotte asked about the caulking that she noticed was cracked and the Comm. stated that that is where they stopped with the new skin. The project needs to go forward from that point.

Leg. Abinanti asked if there are other ways to do this project. Co-Chair Swanson wants to know what we are doing and how do we achieve the confidence level that that building is safe and that we won’t regret this in 20 years? She stated that her confidence level is not where it should be and if we fix that building it may never be where it should be.

Co-Chair Wishnie asked if the steel structure has been impeded in any way and if water is in there is mold, spores, etc.

Comm. Landi stated that structurally the building will withstand the new skin. They do not see cracks , etc. However, since this is a concern to the legislators, the Comm. would be willing to hire another consulting engineer to alleviate concerns. He will hire the consultant that did the original building and he will know the loads, etc. Weyman Wing was the original architect who designed the building and who also checked in 1994. Comm. Landi stated that they looked at two or three different firms and the Office of Court Administration picked this firm in 1994.

Co-Chair Wishnie stated that the main issue is if the building is structurally sound. We can bring in another architect to compare what he did back in 1970 and see if there are any additional concerns. We did this in 1994 to check the calculations.

Leg. LaMotte stated that she heard that that building does not have the proper design to use for today’s purpose and in 20 years it will not be adequate.

Comm. Landi stated that we are also leasing space at 140 Grand for other Court functions.

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Co-Chair Wishnie feels that the sooner we are out of that building the better. The sooner the new skin is put on the safer the structure will be.

Leg. Abinanti stated that people in the building asked him why should they move. Can’t it be done floor by floor?

Leg. Abinanti would like to suggest that what we are doing is taking pieces of different proposals and we are going to end up with a camel when we need a horse. Where do we want to be ultimately?

What he is hearing is to be where we are now. How do we get there?

Leg. Oros stated that the RFP went out for any location. If we go on with this, what are the alternatives?

Leg. Abinanti stated that we could sell the present Courthouse to someone who would rehab it and give us a turn-key operation back.

Co-Chair Wishnie stated that we have a legitimate proposal on the table and we only have until June 1, to bond and we receive public approval. We have to do this all at once.

Co-Chair Wishnie asked if there is a general consensus to end up at the same location that we are at now? Co-Chair Swanson believes it belongs here and Leg. LaMotte feels it belongs in White Plains but not necessarily at that site.

Comm. Oliva stated that this facility was planned around urban renewal. Everything has been planned to be at that location. If we do something long-range we should support that location. Comm. Oliva stated that we should take to the City of White Plains. This has been a long standing discussion with the City of White Plains and they may not agree with a move and they are part of the decision.

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On motion of Leg. Abinanti, seconded by Co-Chair Wishnie, Leg. Abinanti stated that it is the intent of the Board of Legislators to improve the current site anyway necessary to make it suitable for the courts for the foreseeable future. Mr. Darcy does not have a problem with the location but if you cannot do what you want - then what?

Leg. Abinanti stated that you have an infra structure in White Plains because of this location. If you move to another part of White Plains you will disrupt office space.

Leg. Darcy stated that we are locked into the location - what we put there is something else. Co-Chair Wishnie stated that we must decide and move on.

Mr. Bashian does not feel moving a few blocks away will make such a big difference. Assuming you are staying with that facility, how are you going to fix what is there? Comm. Landi stated floor by floor.

Leg. LaMotte stated that she had no problem with the Family Justice Center at that site. All the prisoner activity would move to the low rise.

Leg. Darcy asked what the next thing we have to do is - to move everyone out, use swing space - etc. We need to know how much swing space will cost.

It was agreed that the consensus of the committee at this time is to stay at this location. On motion of Leg. Abinanti, seconded by Co-Chair Wishnie the committee agreed 6-0 .

Leg. LaMotte stated that we need to factor the move into a temporary building - how long will it take to get permits and fixing the space. Has anyone approached the City of white Plains to ask? Comm. Oliva stated that the City of White Plains is happy with the Justice Center and the City has to give a Governmental Use permit for any building that is not . The City Council must act on the permit.

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Co-Chair Wishnie stated that we have a proposal we should focus on and build the annex, use as swing space and then do the tower. Leg. Oros asked if this is the what we want to do. He also suggested not building the annex and using modular on site and try to work around it.

Co-Chair Wishnie stated that one of the things they explained to us is that you are taking all the criminal activity out of the Courthouse with the use of the annex.

Leg. Darcy asked what are feasible alternatives for swing space - new annex, outside buildings, or modular temporary space? In evaluating those three, what is the feasibility, time and cost involved?

Co-Chair Wishnie is concerned about going to swing space because of the damage in the tower. During the next 18 months some space could be prepared to eliminate the tower for a 4 - 5 year period. His concern is that the damage continues to happen until the skin is replaced. You cannot ask people to be in that building for the next five years. He believes it is an emergency and should be fixed now.

Leg. Abinanti asked when will the first move take place? Comm. Landi stated that when we gave you the proposal we gave you a six year plan. There is a possibility we can do the skin and windows a lot sooner in two - three years. We can try to speed up that process.

Leg. LaMotte asked what happens after the November bond is passed. Comm. Landi stated that he Anticipates putting both out in one contract.

Leg. LaMotte would like the Comm. to walk us through the safety aspects that we heard today. She stated that many people feel something is going to happen with the lack of elevators. Comm. Landi stated we have 6 elevators and 2 have been programmed to the upper

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floors. Do they go down yes. You have given me the money and they will be repaired. We have been using one entrance and exit until we do something to the outside of the building. However, in an emergency, all exits can be used.

Co-Chair Wishnie stated that the Judges are saying that if they remain in the building during construction, they will be disrupted by the noise. He felt that we have to do the right thing here. He thinks that $30 million will be well-spent in rent if will can get the job done quicker. Can the temporary space and the rented space at 140 Grand be merged together at 360? The Comm. does not feel it could.

Leg. Abinanti stated that if for 5 years they are in cramped space and crowed but safe, it would be better. He feels that there is too much wasted space. There are efficiencies that can be built in. Whatever it is there are ways of saving space.

Leg. Darcy feels that we must know the cost of the entire move before we do anything because this will effect the Operating Budget. We must know the time frame and costs involved. Family Justice Center is new and there will be no savings there, but Tower could save 3-5% or $1 million. The first move would not take place until the end of Year 4.

Leg. Darcy asked if we are looking at a situation where you cannot move for 4 years, whatever is done we have to make the outside safe. Does that have to wait? Comm. Landi said No that it could begin in Year 1

Co-Chair Wishnie had a suggestion. He would like to have the Architect come here and pay him for his time - Comm. Landi said as soon as we sign a contact with him we will arrange a meeting.

Co-Chair Wishnie would like the Comm. to look at 360 to see if we can move all to 360 and what the cost will be.

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Mr. Hosey asked as a practical real estate reality what developer is going to give you a first class refit into a courthouse - especially a criminal court house with anticipation of five years and will then have to unfit to lease back to office space?

Ms Schnieder stated that 360 is willing to do that.

The Committee would like the Comm. to get us a cost factor of everything including rent, maintenance, etc., before we go any further to know what it will do to our Operating Budget.

Comm. Oliva stated that the DA was already rehabbed and not part of this plan. Comm. Landi stated that they are designing two additional elevators for prisoners.

On motion of Leg. Abinanti, seconded by Leg. LaMotte, the meeting adjourned at 12:20 P.M.